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Post by jondxxx on Aug 1, 2016 18:26:13 GMT
I suspect that the standard forks aren't designed to cope with the forces generated by disk brakes so more is involved than just lugs. Also new shifters probably hydraulic would be needed. The back end may be easier as it is already designed to cope with drive forces.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2016 18:26:25 GMT
Planet X have just reduced the price of their offering by £100 for a limited period. I was put off by the SRAM gearing.
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Post by Paulinblack on Aug 1, 2016 18:33:28 GMT
Please may I have: - A light aluminium frame - Carbon forks - Mavic Aksium quality wheels - 105 groupset - 11-32t cassette - Disc brakes - Ability for mudguards in the winter - Standard 25mm tyres but capable of 28mm - For use as year round commuter and winter riding - Approx £500 please What front crankset (gearing and number of rings etc)? I'm happy to go for the semi compact 52/36 to keep it similar to my Mach.
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Post by Radchenister on Aug 1, 2016 18:44:29 GMT
I suspect that the standard forks aren't designed to cope with the forces generated by disk brakes so more is involved than just lugs. Also new shifters probably hydraulic would be needed. The back end may be easier as it is already designed to cope with drive forces. I purposely picked cable ones and skewer style wheels a few posts back as the simplest and cheapest method of upgrading the 520 / 540, not sure it's a big deal bulking up the forks with lugs or not - sure they can sort that if there's a will to do it; I'm presuming the cable discs are passable if you believe the user ratings and that they operate with standard cables into standard calipers, don't know if this is true. I'm trying to understand if taking the Tribans into new disc set up territory is simply a case of frame lugs, disc wheels, multi-use tyres and the disc bits I just posted? If I was at B'TWIN with a bit of RnD budget to use up, I'd buy these bits and look at adding them to the 540 package, to see how it all gels, then I'd take two weeks out to go and ride the bike on trails and roads in the Auvergne region (dream job).
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Post by Radchenister on Aug 1, 2016 18:48:37 GMT
Perhaps for the road Paul, if used as a commuter, but perhaps a 50 / 34 would gel with more tyre resistance - I'd probably want a bit less if going off road more often, particularly if the terrain was roller-coaster-esque (as above), even on level gravel (Sharpness Canal tow path for example), you'd probably not push the 52 / 11 at all - could get by on that set up though if that's all that's available.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2016 20:34:39 GMT
I think if anyone is looking for a do it all bike they need to determine how far they intend to go when taking the bike off asphalt surfaced roads. If you want to hit the rough stuff I would be looking at a full blown CX bike. My main criteria when choosing the Whyte Suffolk was to get a mainly road orientated bike that I could use in winter with wider tyres/mudguards and fitted with disc brakes. I also wanted a limited off road capability to use occasionally on trails, gravel roads and decent bridleways as well as doing some lightweight touring. The bike ticked my boxes and I look at it as filling the gap between a race bike and a CX bike. On the BTWIN frame topic, I would have thought it far easier for BTWIN to source a purpose made frame from the far east that is designed for the job. As Jon points out the forces generated by the use of disc brakes can damage frames and forks. The guy at Thorn Cycles used to bang on about it on his website. (The current Thorn Nomad comes with disc on the back and V brake on the front.) This article explains the differences in the Whyte range which can be applied to other brands. roadcyclinguk.com/gear/whyte-2015.html
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Post by william39 on Aug 1, 2016 21:38:08 GMT
Maybe it works out cheaper having something like the 540 and treating wheels as consumables? No need to worry excessively about rim wear when 501s can be had for less than 70 pounds.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2016 22:11:14 GMT
Maybe it works out cheaper having something like the 540 and treating wheels as consumables? No need to worry excessively about rim wear when 501s can be had for less than 70 pounds. A good point and I looked at buying the £450 version but they only had it in small, william39 . The jump to £650 for the updated version turned my head to look at what else was on offer. As to the wheels fitted to the 540, my lad had Aksium's on his road bike and the rear hub disintegrated after not much use. I am not saying they are poor wheels but his experience with them again persuaded me to look at alternatives. (He now has the excellent Campagnola Zonda's) I asked a Decathlon manager about the prospects of a CX style bike being in the pipeline before buying the used Whyte. I would have waited and probably bought the BTWIN offering if there was one in the pipeline as I respect everything that the company stands for.
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Post by Radchenister on Aug 1, 2016 22:14:23 GMT
That's the balancing act isn't it, no point in thrashing an expensive semi off road / occasional trail bike to an inch of its life around the FoD MTB circuits but if it copes OK on a tow path or country gravel trail and that's all you want it for, plus it rides well in those settings, then go for it - pick your tool carefully though, or buy cheaper and just acknowledge you'll wreck it over time. The engineer in me sees no big deal in sourcing bulked up forks though, just need ones that are up to the job - plenty available out there and not beyond the test kit at the B'TWIN village to suss suitable ones at cheaper prices; I spotted a huge range of prices on-line, some awfully dodgy looking ones from China, several hundred pound ones from the usual suspects over here at the other extreme, then some in between priced ones on e-bay from more reputable foreign outlets, that strike me as looking fine for purpose, as long as tested though (which us everyday punters can't do, but B'TWIN can, with bulk buy potential, they should be able to keep the cost to punters low). Re throw away wheels, I still hate the sound of grinding rims in winter though, even if the wheels are cheap as chips 501s. The idea of chunkier tyres and reliable wet weather discs is probably a sound enough reason for buying a bike in this camp, based on quality of ride issues alone.
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Post by Radchenister on Aug 1, 2016 22:23:53 GMT
Oh and of course B'TWIN design their own frames, then get them made up at various spots worldwide, they also design or source manufacturing of things like forks from all over the place, we know where most carbon kit comes from - suspect their forks come mainly from the east but it'd be interesting to know how they'd sort slightly higher tech disc forks at vfm rates. My FC700 is made in France, so they can do home-grown carbon.
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Post by r0b1et on Aug 1, 2016 23:10:29 GMT
The london road from planet x looks great in the flesh and a fine price, but my experience of their bikes is bad from the pro carbon.
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Post by Radchenister on Aug 1, 2016 23:17:17 GMT
I think @davefy7 popped those up to show that the £1K price point has already been cracked by P-X.
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Post by ChrisD on Aug 1, 2016 23:31:33 GMT
The BTwin CX that I have is a cracking bike in many ways and for a while it was playing the agile, multi-surface role with some style. The geometry was great, more relaxed than T3 but still able to get a racey position for the road. The 105 groupset was a revelation compared to the T3. Mavic Aksiums were great. Tougher off road than I though they would be for 20/24 spoke set up. The stock tyres (Hutch CX) were a little prone to flats and tricky to put back on the rim, but were light and a good compromise for mixed surfaces. Putting on Marathon pluses after I trashed one of the tyres on a local trail was a mistake really as they were so much heavier. Sad to say, over time there were a few fundamental flaws with the bike IMHO. The biggest turned out to be the stock (Tektro) canti brakes which eventually lost my confidence, especially in the wet, despite upgrading the blocks. The high mounted front canti caused fairly severe brake judder. I considered upgrades to much better rated cantis but they were a bit pricey. Should have gone for mini v-brakes as recommended to me by chas some while back, but was worried about minimal tolerance of wheels going even slightly out of true so eventually tried transfering the canti brakes from my old trusty Dawes Galaxy (that had suffered a catastrophic frame failure), and then made a hash of that so the braking was no better and possibly even worse. The next big issue was the pulley at the bottom of the downtube used to route the cable through a 180 loop back up to the front mech. Never gave smooth shifting and eventually caused severe cable wear on two occasions. The 36/46 CX specific chainset was interesting. Not really a problem having the 46 big ring as I'm usually (over) cautious on descents, but 36/28 never felt quite low enough for steep stuff in the Purbecks or looser but less steep climbs off road, especially when I knew the benefits of 30/28 on the T3. The other issue was a lack of lugs for racks or mudguards. I nearly resorted to p-clips but opted for a seatpost rack and the Peter Lazarus recommended Zefal MTB mudguard set . Sadly the braking and front mech issues became so bad over time that the bike is now sat next to the turbo for indoor use (no braking or front mech issues there) awaiting a long overdue overhaul to make it rideable again. Lessons learned from the CX experience would put my wish list for a multi surface bike close to that of Paulinblack . Disc brakes should be the solution to the braking issues I experienced with cantis and if they were as good as the Spyre brakes Radchenister and @davefy7 have mentioned then cable brakes rather than hydraulic should be fine. I'd happily opt for the new, sleek 10 speed Tiagra (105 trickle down) as a compromise over the 5800 11 speed 105. I'd be minded to go for a compact 50/34 with 12-28 on the back or going as low as 34/32 if using the bike loaded for touring. Having mounts for racks and full mud guards would also be very welcome as the seatpost mounted rack puts the luggage and centre of balance too high to be optimal for a full touring load.
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Post by KiwiBeard on Aug 1, 2016 23:44:33 GMT
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Post by ChrisD on Aug 1, 2016 23:54:49 GMT
Must say a couple of the new Boardman range are interesting offerings - the Road Comp (Spyre brakes and 9spd Sora compact and about £560 with current Halfords deal giving 20% off) and CX Team (SRAM 1x11 drivetrain and hydraulic disc brakes and just under £800). If the Road Comp has clearance for wider tyres than the stock 25c it could tick a lot of boxes on Paul's list but suggests 105 for £500 is perhaps a wish too far. And they both have red trim...
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