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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2013 12:06:32 GMT
I need some advice boys and girls.
I've started developing some knee pain, right behind the knee cap on my front leg (I'm right footed). It's a burning pain around the tendons, the next day after a longish(for me) ride and slowly dissipates over the coming few days. It's got me worried and I've been off my bike for a few days which is annoying.
I'm used to doing 30-40 miles in a day but normally with breaks in between and normally through the city so very few hills.
Now the past few weekends I've been out with a fellow cyclist doing about 30 miles in a single session and with some pretty big hills. It is only since I've developed the knee pain. Coincidentally I've recently changed by cleat position so I'm not sure if this could be the cause?
Slight pain in the left knee, which is all but gone. However my right leg is the one providing most of the power, this is where the discomfort is.
Basically any advice please as to whether it is due to hills I'm not used to? The cleat position change? Will this pain not be an issue once my body gets used to hill climbing and I should just power through it or is something out of alignment?
Thanks
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2013 12:11:44 GMT
If it is since you've moved your cleats they could the most likely suspects. I would move them back to original position and take it from there. Try a couple of shortish rides to start with. At least then you can rule them out either way.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2013 12:50:54 GMT
I moved the cleats because it felt to far forward so inessence I felt as if I was powering through my toes instead of at the ball of my feet. I will try your suggestion along with any other recommendations.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2013 12:56:27 GMT
If its not that it could be a number of things, seat height being to low could also cause knee issues.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2013 12:57:43 GMT
Are they fixed cleats or floating?
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Post by captslog on Jun 12, 2013 13:04:55 GMT
In moving your cleats, you've effectively changed the distance which was correct for you from your pedal to the top of your seat. (it's a round about way of saying what i mean, but bear with me).
You said you were on your toes before. As you moved the cleat backwards, you need to drop the saddle height a bit to compensate.
I did something similar recently, I put the slightly longer cranks from the T3 onto my commuter bike, only 5mm but I was starting to feel it in the backs of my legs. The change was combined with a change to flat pedals, which I believe also made me ride with my feet a bit further forward. I dropped the saddle by 10mm, things are much easier now.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2013 13:54:28 GMT
This probably won't help much on the hills because I'm guessing you're in the lowest gear possible. If not, try slightly higher cadence in a lower gear. Might be worth trying this in general to put less strain on everything. When I got back into cycling a few years ago I was doing everything wrong regarding gearing, far too high and getting tendon pain. Then someone advised spinning a bit quicker in a lower gear and that got rid of the pain.
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Post by Radchenister on Jun 12, 2013 14:06:20 GMT
See if this makes any sense: www.cptips.com/pknee.htm - this pretty much sums up my issue exactly. If it is this, then you're in the same club as Bradley Wiggins now, as he's been complaining of it this spring . I have also had a long spell of left leg knee posterior bicep pains since start up in December, I don't think the cold weather helped and have battled on with it, at times it's had me concerned over not being able to progress. I have worked hard on bike fit and more recently changed to road cleats, I believe these are a far firmer platform than the MTB set up and the niggle has since gradually faded away but I still imagine it's lurking just nearby, ready for a cold day and a few steep hills to kick it off again. I do wonder to what extent the warmer weather and road cleats, as well as a gradual overall improvement in fitness have done me good - I hope it's on the way out but am still careful with it and have winter to get through in a few months. I also make sure I fuel and hydrate properly now, this may be unrelated but BA and I had a recent discussion and are of the opinion that it stops the legs complaining so much - I'm willing to try every thing I can to keep it at bay. People sometimes suggest icing it but I'm not sure that will help; just trying your best to not agitate it beyond the point where it's putting you backwards was my aim, I can tolerate a fair amount of 'niggle' but have previously made it quite bad at times by ignoring it completely and then suffering even when at rest. If it's the same issue, you'll have to find your balance with it. I've been inactive for a few years but am no stranger to occasional sports pains and injuries when younger - this is an odd repetitive niggle though, different to the usual aches and pains - it's difficult to understand what we're on about if you've never had it; feel for you budd', hope it clears up.
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Post by Radchenister on Jun 12, 2013 14:07:59 GMT
This probably won't help much on the hills because I'm guessing you're in the lowest gear possible. If not, try slightly higher cadence in a lower gear. Might be worth trying this in general to put less strain on everything. When I got back into cycling a few years ago I was doing everything wrong regarding gearing, far too high and getting tendon pain. Then someone advised spinning a bit quicker in a lower gear and that got rid of the pain. Yep, like that advice, this did help and is easier with weight loss and fitness gains - may be why I'm getting over it also.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2013 14:56:18 GMT
ohoward - I have the exustar pedals with red cleats that are used by a few other members here. I think the red is 7 degree float.
captslog & billy - I didn't think about saddle height being an issue. I will also check this before I set out on my next ride.
fredscuttle - spot on about the cadence because this is what I've been told by fellow rider but last weekend I was sure to be in a lower gear up the hills to see if this could help.
Rad - great link. It describes quite a few possible causes but again it mentions saddle height. What does "Excessive internal rotation of the cleats will also increase stress" get at? Are they referring to worn cleats moving around in the pedal? I'm curious, you said the pain is mainly in your left knee? Am I to assume your left leg is the power provider?
Joint pain is one of those disconcerting issues with any sport and you hope your are training right so as not to cause future problems! I had similar issues in my elbows when I used to lift weights. Horrible tennis elbow. I found the solution to that was some stretching before exercise. Is there a particular way to warm up before going out on your ride? I normally take it easy for 5-10 mins on flats before pushing myself.
Thanks for all the great advice chaps!
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Post by Radchenister on Jun 12, 2013 15:01:31 GMT
I'm right handed if that's what you're asking but feel I'm ambidextrous on the peddling power front as do try and push both hard - although I kick a football far better with my right, I can also kick with the left but it's the weaker side and that might be part of the issue.
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Post by Radchenister on Jun 12, 2013 15:04:33 GMT
PS, I lowered my saddle but only about 3mm which helped and then the Exustar pedals with the red cleats like yours did the rest, as well as being conscious not to power it too much.
The over rotation inwards thing is the inadvertent twist inwards you may get when pedalling, IMO the Exustar's are far better for this than the MTB ones I had before; I used to try riding with different foot positions and angles but it didn't really make much difference as I'd forget and am pretty sure it would creep back in after putting power down whether on the flat or uphill - that article is likely good on naming / diagnosis but light on solutions, perhaps referring to one or two particular cases?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2013 18:28:45 GMT
Clearly for me most of my power is coming from the right leg. I'm told it's good practice for people to train their weaker leg by only using this leg to pedal on a turbo trainer; something I will be definitely be looking at. I'm going to start by checking my cleat position this weekend, then adjusting saddle height. When you are at the bottom of the pedal stoke, should your feet be near enough flat(lower saddle) or slightly pointed downward (higher saddle)? Once I am happy with setup, at least then I have a benchmark and can ask myself if it's the hills or distance which my body is not used to. Wondering if I should stock up on cod liver oil
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Post by Radchenister on Jun 12, 2013 18:46:36 GMT
I think establishing yourself a place to start from is the way to get into this properly - aim for what I'd call a neutral position as a kick off to work out from and do get a bit geeky in mindset but keep it grounded with common sense and the KISS principle should be followed.
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Post by cbrdeano on Jun 12, 2013 19:14:36 GMT
I have always gone by this : Spotting when your saddle is too high tends to be easier than spotting when itβs too low. Too high a saddle will result in the feeling that youβre losing all power at the bottom of the pedal stroke as the pedal goes beyond your reach. Too low a saddle will cause the quads to fatigue quickly, often combined with anterior (frontal) knee pain. It comes from here - www.totally-bikes.com/services/bike-set-up-and-fitting/Some good set up tips on there
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