Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2014 19:04:23 GMT
Since everyone else seems to be posting their latest steeds, here is mine taking on a 93 mile club run two weeks ago. We had to pitstop to pick up some emergency supplies (a snickers and a can of coke) for a new lad who had completely bonked and I took the photo whilst we waited for him and another one of the lads to catch up! It's an Argon 18 Krypton with the Swiss Side Heidi wheels swapped over from my T3 and full Ultegra 11 speed groupset. Weight is around the 7.5kg mark and with a proper bike fit, it really does feel like a completely different league to the t3. I can pedal in complete circles without any dead spots of flex, whilst the perceived effort to get up to speed and maintain it (and my own comfort over longer distances too) have all improved massively. Plus I've managed to switch to 34-25 lowest gear in/around the Yorkshire hills with relative ease considering the T3's upgraded 105 groupo has 30-28 as the lowest! I still use my T3 (albeit now downgraded to Fulcrum 5 wheels) for winter, wet weather and commuting, although I must admit it feels like cycling in treacle at times!
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Post by ianmoss on Sept 27, 2014 19:13:50 GMT
very nice Sir
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Post by r0b1et on Sept 27, 2014 22:40:31 GMT
it really does feel like a completely different league to the t3. I can pedal in complete circles without any dead spots of flex, whilst the perceived effort to get up to speed and maintain it
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Post by r0b1et on Sept 27, 2014 22:40:56 GMT
makes me think red more for adding colour to mine!
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Post by fatmanona5a on Sept 28, 2014 7:31:27 GMT
!
I still use my T3 (albeit now downgraded to Fulcrum 5 wheels) for winter, wet weather and commuting, although I must admit it feels like cycling in treacle at times! [/quote]
Do we need to be so harsh? Some members might aspire to a Ten speed T3 on Fulcrum 5's... Why not something like "I'm still using my T3 for resistance training on everyday rides"?
Looks a lovely bike, but isn't this a Triban page, and then yo dis the T3!!
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Post by Rocket on Sept 28, 2014 7:37:43 GMT
If this is true then once I get my carbon special then none of the seasoned racing guys in my club will be able to keep up with me as they struggle now. I've told them that metal bikes make the best climbers One day my detailed statistics will reveal the truth..... Show us the Strava eh Radchenister
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Post by Radchenister on Sept 28, 2014 8:20:53 GMT
Absolutely Rocket , if you're race fit / light and by that I mean as fit and light as you can be (I'm not anywhere near it myself at present), then bike lightness may carry just a few watts on the flat and maybe a few more up hill (see GCN 'Light body or light bike') but I don't believe this is really noticeable during everyday use, unless you've got someone from Tissot following you around on the same circuit doing research, logging time, power, weather, personal fitness , health, form etc. it's going to be difficult to quantify. With a slight weight saving you'd shave a bit if doing the local TT or hill climb but equally, you may just be having a good day. Similarly, the perception of stiffness and power transfer would need to be studied empirically to be proven. To be fair though, there's something nice about a refined set up, smoother gearing, good shifting, tighter ratios, improved comfort and good 'feel' can add to our experience and help with performance but I think quantifying / claiming this as pure tangible performance improvements, just by riding a bike around a bit, is like adding up 2+2 to make 22. I'm not knocking the qualitive improvements, just asking for a bit more scientific thinking, this usually means proving the cause and effect - the short way of saying this is 'show us your Strava' - although Strava is pretty crude, it's better than no data at all . As people know, I've just switched to a carbon frame and whilst I suspect there are performance gains and it definitely feels nice, for me the jury's out on the extent of the performance improvements ... ongoing, good fun subject and all part of the cycling experience ...
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Post by Radchenister on Sept 28, 2014 8:31:50 GMT
... and fwiw, if there was a hill climb TT out of the posters listed here (including myself), I know who I'd bet on ... and he's not riding carbon!
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Post by r0b1et on Sept 28, 2014 11:10:44 GMT
I'm not knocking the qualitive improvements, just asking for a bit more scientific thinking, this usually means proving the cause and effect - the short way of saying this is 'show us your Strava' - although Strava is pretty crude, it's better than no data at all . I showed my strava, and shall again: www.strava.com/activities/199575070/segments/4702610285That hill I've done 33 times, 6 on my old steel white bike, 26 on the T3, once on the rose... personal leaderboard from veloviewer using actual speed rather than the dubious GPS strava speed (avoids resolution/segment matching issues): 1 01:28 01:28 0 0 19 27.5 0 0 27.3 657 26.9 2014-09-26 Rose 2 01:35 01:35 7 8 26 37.7 0 0 25.3 662 25.1 2014-07-14 Triban 3 3 01:38 01:38 10 11.4 29 42 0 0 24.5 666 24.5 2014-08-13 Triban 3 4 01:41 01:41 13 14.8 32 46.4 0 0 23.8 670 23.9 2014-09-22 Triban 3 5 01:46 01:46 18 20.5 37 53.6 0 0 22.7 704 23.9 2014-09-07 Triban 3 6 01:44 01:44 16 18.2 35 50.7 0 0 23.1 687 23.8 2014-06-05 Triban 3 7 01:41 01:41 13 14.8 32 46.4 0 0 23.8 664 23.7 2014-09-16 Triban 3 8 01:42 01:42 14 15.9 33 47.8 0 0 23.6 671 23.7 2014-07-29 Triban 3 9 01:45 01:45 17 19.3 36 52.2 0 0 22.9 690 23.7 2014-09-23 Triban 3 10 01:44 01:44 16 18.2 35 50.7 0 0 23.1 669 23.2 2014-04-22 Triban 3
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Post by Radchenister on Sept 28, 2014 12:59:12 GMT
Proves little, Rocket has similar improvements on the same bike, I can show you equal amounts of figures that'll tell you the exact opposite on my rides. I was faster up hills early summer when training more, no bike is going to compensate for reduced saddle time, although I could likely go push it on any climb this afternoon and beat most of my pbs if I was minded to prove I could go faster. I'm not seeing any drastic increases in overall speed from my or other people's data, just because a particular bike is a bit lighter it isn't going to turn people into Chris Froome; we need to remember people see pbs just by pushing on a bit and training a lot, so it's impossible to point at one figure set and conclude it directly correlates to the proportion of additional oomph offered by the bike itself. I'll package it differently, do people seriously believe it's the bike that is the key factor, or is improving the engine that's moving it all the main place to work on for gains?
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Mehran
Peloton Rider
Posts: 192
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Post by Mehran on Sept 28, 2014 13:48:57 GMT
I am with Radchenister on this one. its 90% you, 10% your bike.
unless your bike is truly awful( wobbly wheels, BB, Frame, Head tube) then changing your bike will only ever get you marginal gains.
a t3/5 with carbon fork and a pair or reasonable wheels will always be good enough. better to invest in your self with better nutrition, training and rest/sleep.
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Post by Rocket on Sept 28, 2014 15:25:42 GMT
The way statistics can be interpreted.... For instance, over 12 months ago I set my fastest ever time on a 10 miles stretch of my East Lancs ride on a completely stock T3a including toeclips and trainers. Since then I have upgraded the engine massively, knocked nearly 2Kg off the bike, changed to SPD-SL and Conti GP4000s yet I still cannot beat that time after 300 more attempts. Do I conclude that the changes I've made slow me down? No, it was one hell of a tailwind on the day. Statistics are only of any use if all the variables are taken into account over a sufficiently large sample of data over time. My standard deviation for this 10 mile stretch has improved massively as expected (mainly down to me)
Real glad your new bike is putting such a smile on your face. Some things are just not quantifiable. I hope I have the same experience.
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Post by Radchenister on Sept 28, 2014 17:50:48 GMT
I'm sending my new frame back, I'm only mid table up Frocester Hill, there's something wrong with it !
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Post by chas on Sept 29, 2014 7:36:03 GMT
An important part of the argument has been overlooked here IMHO, the proper bike fit (mentioned in first post). Although I've never had one myself, always relying on trial and error, I believe it can make big improvements in power as well as comfort on whatever bike you're riding. Is the position much different to how your T3 is set up?
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Post by stevo on Sept 29, 2014 8:08:46 GMT
As I said, there is a lot of 'snobbery' in cycling. I have a Planet X pro Carbon with full Ultegra, mate has an Argon 18, father in Law fairly top of the range Ridley, but I cannot agree that after riding these bikes a T3 is 'like riding in treacle' Granted, it's not quite as good as the bikes costing up to 10 times as much, but it ain't as far behind as some people would have you believe!!
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