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Post by robertsims on Nov 11, 2016 16:55:16 GMT
I know this sort of comparision has been done before with (strangely) strong opinions on both sides but thought as a user of TR for last 18 months or so and someone who has just used Zwift for a free trial (2 rides, one short tester and one longer one) thought I'd give a (hopefully) useful comparison.
Firstly in terms of sheer fun I thought Zwift was superb...when I joined an event/group ride. My first tester ride I pootled about for 20 mins, didn't really see the point and lacked focus. However today I thought I'd give it a proper go and just as I got on the turbo I saw that a group ride/mini race was starting in a few minutes so joined that - it was superb fun! Ended up riding with same 3-4 people most of the way round, one guy kept attacking and rest work together in draft to bring him back. Went on like this until about 5 (of 20) miles left and some fat lad who'd drafted most of the time (i.e me) attacked at top of last climb, put 20 secs into the group and held them off by 4 seconds at the line. In was so enjoyable and made me push myself much harder than usually would, but like in a real ride there were times I sat in and drafted to recover. I love TR but NEVER had as much fun on the turbo as I did today on Zwift. It also turned out to be a great workout with average power just over FTP.
HOWEVER...was it structured training? Regimented intervals? No - this is where TR excels - it sets a plan in place and you just follow it and you DO improve. usually when doing TR I stick a TV program/GCN on and watch that and I do enjoy it. Now Zwift has workout modes similar to TR which I've not used yet...but the 'Plans' seem far below what TR offer. However you can design your own plan and workouts on Zwift.
Overall I would say if you want to enjoy the turbo and get some miles in then Zwift is great, for full on training then feel TR has the edge...
So for me, this time of year is about plenty of sweetspot and threshold riding (which is what I did today with odd burst to attack) so I've suspended my TR membership and gone over to the dark side of Zwift. However some Feb/March when start doing more structured intervals for my TT season I may well swap back and cancel Zwift to restart TR!
Any opinions from those who have done both? Or tips on using the Zwift workout mode for structured training?
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Post by RobP on Nov 11, 2016 20:40:05 GMT
Thanks for the review robertsims whilst being a long term user of zwift I have never tried TR so was unable to comment. I presume you are using a smart trainer? If so what one For the 3 modes in Zwift these are my thoughts Workout Mode. There are pre built individual workouts and and workouts as part of a "program" of a number of weeks e.g. 8 week FTP builder. I think that the actual workouts are good but you either need a clear understanding of what type of workout you want to do, take pot luck based on the (sometimes descriptive) name and length of time you have to workout or build a workout your self in workout editor. This is very easy to do and you can create a good workout to your own requirements which you can also share with other users as the blocks are all based on a % of your own FTP From my limited knowledge I think this is where TR excels as it set the Program for you and you simply follow it to achieve the desired outcome Here is a Youtube video on the workout builder This is the strava of a custom one I did, PM your email address and I will send it to you www.strava.com/activities/762996516Free Ride
I use this quite often when on the London course as a full lap including Box hill is about 40 mins for me and it provides a good workout if you go for it If I have about an hour spare and the course is Wattopia then the mountain route calls. 8km climb at average 7% and your reward is a big pool of sweat on the floor Race/Group Ride Only done this once as often time dont match when I wanna ride but did a recent Cat D and it was the hardest I have ever gone on a turbo. Like you I saw an increase in my FTP from the effort as the competition element really got me hooked www.strava.com/activities/755818206It was the first time I ever got the sufferfest HR analysis and it rates it at 119% intensity
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Post by denkfaul on Nov 11, 2016 22:37:45 GMT
I've done a fair amount of zwifting (34 hours according to my profile) and about 10 TR rides. Completely agree with your review - Zwift is awfully fun, especially when you're in group rides / races. Even though actually talking to the people you're riding with is a little difficult, just the fact that you know you're riding with and against other real people adds another dimension to riding on the turbo. The training plans don't look that spectacular as you say, compared to TR's vast library of workouts.
I'm currently taking advantage of the 2 free months of zwift you get as a strava premium member (which I've just cancelled) to sign up to TR again to follow the SST Base plans and I'm running both concurrently. TR for the workout plan and zwift for the distraction. I'm only two weeks in so it's too early to say, but so far I don't see a huge amount of difference between the TR rides and the zwift SST (short) & SST (med) workouts. TR includes drills and lots of instructional & motivational text which zwift doesn't, and I suppose having prescribed workouts in TR that are slightly different each time is probably easier to handle psychologically than running the same few workouts each time in zwift.
I'll probably keep up the dual zwift/TR setup for the next couple of months, following the TR plan as much as possible with some zwift races thrown in every now and then. It feels a bit silly to pay for both so I'll have to make a choice in the new year, and at this stage it's slightly leaning towards zwift.
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Post by Paulinblack on Nov 11, 2016 23:57:41 GMT
Thanks for this chaps. Really interesting as I havent taken the plunge with TT yet. Was veering away from the Zwift idea but may well drift back!
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Post by RobP on Nov 12, 2016 8:37:46 GMT
Paulinblack have you got a turbo trainer yet? I think you can get a trial code for TR and know that zwift gives you first 50km free to try em both out and decide which you prefer. If going to try zwift then try one of the group ride events to get the full effect
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Post by robertsims on Nov 12, 2016 8:52:04 GMT
Yes, if trying zwift free trial I'd definitely try to include some sort of group ride/race.
I don't have smart trainer, I have a Kinetic Road Machine but with InRide (which basically calculates power from turbo speed and transmits it via Bluetooth but also allows you to calibrate the power with spin down test so not vital to have same pressure/turbo setting each time as calibration sorts it.
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Post by Paulinblack on Nov 12, 2016 16:58:11 GMT
Paulinblack have you got a turbo trainer yet? I think you can get a trial code for TR and know that zwift gives you first 50km free to try em both out and decide which you prefer. If going to try zwift then try one of the group ride events to get the full effect Not yet. I'm still stuck on the following decision point: 1. Pay lots for a smart trainer like Wahoo Kickr Snap to get all the bells and whistles 2. Get something cheaper like the CycleOps Fluid 2 which gets lots of good reviews but doesn't have the bells and whistles 3. Not bother and stick to a combination of outside, gym and spin classes
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Post by RobP on Nov 12, 2016 17:50:42 GMT
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Post by denkfaul on Nov 12, 2016 19:33:58 GMT
The Rampa looks great, if I weren't in the middle of buying a house I would have snapped one up by now. My fluid trainer is doing the job fine, it's just a little mentally taxing trying to stick to a prescribed power target on long intervals. With a smart trainer with FE-C / ERG I wouldn't have worry about being too high or low, I could just focus my efforts on turning the pedals and whatever else is on my screen. The limited reviews on the Rampa so far all sound pretty positive. This video gives some indication of the noise levels, and it's not too bad at all.
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Post by r0b1et on Nov 14, 2016 11:09:58 GMT
I think you have this nailed. I imagine if you were nto designing your own workout sessions Zwift might be superior due to the distraction effect - and options.
My concern with TrainerRoad (which I've still never tried!) is that because its so prescriptive, it will demotivate me to do any real riding, and will lose all my social riding.
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Post by Paulinblack on Nov 15, 2016 10:51:10 GMT
I might be being thick here, but I can't work out what the Β£200 difference between the Qubo and Rampa buys you?
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Post by denkfaul on Nov 15, 2016 12:36:30 GMT
I might be being thick here, but I can't work out what the Β£200 difference between the Qubo and Rampa buys you? I've looked quite seriously at both of these in the past, and from memory: The Rampa has a higher simulated incline %, more accurate power reading, and different resistance drum type so should be significantly quieter. I was nearly set on the Qubo digital until I watched a couple of youtube reviews, the noise levels were horrific so I ruled it out. If you think you could put up with a noisy trainer then the Qubo still looks a great buy.
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Post by robertsims on Nov 21, 2016 13:46:59 GMT
Another race on Zwift yesterday - bloody hard work but v good training - makes me push myself more than TR did (all be it with less structure). Ended up 13th (of 28) of my race category - There were about 8 of us close together throughout whole race, me and one other guy managed to breakaway with couple of miles to go then I opened up sprint too early and he came round me at the line - doh!
Also did a 'Workout' for first time last Friday which is similar to TR structure, where have set powers to meet and gives you instructions etc. Worked very well and was pleasantly surprised. If I'm honest I can't see me going back to TR but will need to put together my own Training Plan.
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Post by ChrisD on Nov 21, 2016 18:43:29 GMT
Another race on Zwift yesterday - bloody hard work but v good training - makes me push myself more than TR did (all be it with less structure). Ended up 13th (of 28) of my race category - There were about 8 of us close together throughout whole race, me and one other guy managed to breakaway with couple of miles to go then I opened up sprint too early and he came round me at the line - doh! Also did a 'Workout' for first time last Friday which is similar to TR structure, where have set powers to meet and gives you instructions etc. Worked very well and was pleasantly surprised. If I'm honest I can't see me going back to TR but will need to put together my own Training Plan. Sounds like the virtual racing will keep you well and truly focused Rob. If supplementing that with some in-house workouts helps you to maintain your FTP, or even improve it over the next few months, then that's going to be a great foundation for the Spring. If you can sort out a pre-season training plan on Zwift for time trials come Feb/March then I guess it's job done. Keep us posted on progress.
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