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Post by r0b1et on Dec 10, 2015 15:27:41 GMT
Having been using a wattbike in the gym for the last couple of months, I'm totally sold on a power meter, but I can't afford it at the moment... hoping that I can save a bit and get a second hand stages... but the 170mm cranks sell for 50% more than 175s, pain in the *** as I've tried 175s and I was getting knee pain (172.5 seems fine on my TT bike). But that power meter has transformed trainign completely, my HR tells me surprisingly little and my perception of effort isn't very good either.
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Post by william39 on Dec 10, 2015 15:38:41 GMT
Can you expand on how it has transformed your training? Way I see it HR shows the effort you are putting in and power the results you are getting out.
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Post by r0b1et on Dec 10, 2015 15:50:13 GMT
Can you expand on how it has transformed your training? Way I see it HR shows the effort you are putting in and power the results you are getting out. Means my intervals are actually where they should be. I know what I can do for 6s, 10s, 30s, 1m, 20m. I know what I am capable of, and I know what training benefit I'll be getting. I can judge zones and get them right - the numbers are motivation too, especially with alarms when I drop out of the target zone. Look at my strava (been almost all gym recently thanks to the weather): www.strava.com/athletes/r0b1eteg: sprints or longer sweet spot intervals I'll be training myself to be used to the feel of maintaining 105% FTP soon, so I can do it in a TT, without a power meter.
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Post by william39 on Dec 10, 2015 16:02:33 GMT
Interesting looking at your stats, seems to be similar to what I thought. Once warmed up there seems to be a very good correlation between heart rate and power so although a power meter would be nice and is more accurate I think HR is a fairly useful substitute.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2015 16:13:02 GMT
Can you expand on how it has transformed your training? Way I see it HR shows the effort you are putting in and power the results you are getting out. Means my intervals are actually where they should be. I know what I can do for 6s, 10s, 30s, 1m, 20m. I know what I am capable of, and I know what training benefit I'll be getting. I can judge zones and get them right - the numbers are motivation too, especially with alarms when I drop out of the target zone. Look at my strava (been almost all gym recently thanks to the weather): www.strava.com/athletes/r0b1eteg: sprints or longer sweet spot intervals I'll be training myself to be used to the feel of maintaining 105% FTP soon, so I can do it in a TT, without a power meter. Surely if you can maintain 105% FTP your FTP ain't right? I've always worked on the premise that you dip into >100% FTP figures to stress yourself and therefore improve your FTP. As an example, here is one of the interval sessions from the program I use (CP30 CompuTrainer) ------------ Warm Up - 10mins @ 70% FTP x5 - 30 secs @ 100% FTP - 30 secs @ 50% FTP x3 - 10 mins @ 108% FTP - 5 mins @ 50% FTP Cool Down - 15 mins @ 50% FTP ------------ In the 4 weeks prior to that the time and % FTP in the main set are increasing week on week.
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Post by r0b1et on Dec 10, 2015 16:27:21 GMT
105% of FTP is where you should be for 20minutes, I'll be hoping to be doing times around 24 minutes for 10s, I also expect to be able to put out more outside with a lot more cooling.
100% would be the limit for 1 hour/25 miles.
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Post by r0b1et on Dec 10, 2015 16:34:45 GMT
As for FTP right? Difficult to say, I think I judged it well, I couldn't stand after my 20 minutes and just lay on the floor while the girl from the treadmill next to me poked me to check I was still alive. www.strava.com/activities/429074239I'm due another go soon, perhaps Sunday if I've had a quiet weekend, otherwise it will have to wait until after Christmas. But having had 10 days unable to ride with illness (almost certainly brought on from over doing the training) I don't think I'll have improved much (and golden cheetah seems to think I'm about at the same place), so my zones are about right.
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Post by Radchenister on Dec 10, 2015 16:44:02 GMT
Trainer Road will suss it with a test, paired with Training Peaks, the latter will work it out for you as you go along without needing to retest .
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Post by r0b1et on Dec 10, 2015 16:54:42 GMT
Trainer road won't work on my laptop (linux) or phone (Android), so I use IPbike and Golden Cheetah, which do much the same, for less (i.e. nothing). Golden Cheetah seems to think I'm still at the same critical power (it uses that rather than FTP, but they are pretty similar measures of similar things) as I was a month ago, but I've increased the W' (In essence the engine has the same power, but the tank got bigger).
I'm always amazed how accurate the predicted power curve is whenever I try and do an interval of a length I've not done before, I can JUST make the predicted limit, and I've never managed more than 5% over.
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Post by Radchenister on Dec 10, 2015 17:06:23 GMT
Folks I know who log training on TP (the free bit) are getting changes fairly regularly but they're trends, not absolutes, if you kick it for several sessions it'll go up, if you don't, it'll come down.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2015 17:26:08 GMT
105% of FTP is where you should be for 20minutes, I'll be hoping to be doing times around 24 minutes for 10s, I also expect to be able to put out more outside with a lot more cooling. 100% would be the limit for 1 hour/25 miles. Did you do the FTP test on the wattbike? if yes that's a 20 minute test if I remember correctly. Therefore if you maintain 105% FTP over 20 mins aren't your are over and above your FTP?
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Post by r0b1et on Dec 12, 2015 11:38:59 GMT
105% of FTP is where you should be for 20minutes, I'll be hoping to be doing times around 24 minutes for 10s, I also expect to be able to put out more outside with a lot more cooling. 100% would be the limit for 1 hour/25 miles. Did you do the FTP test on the wattbike? if yes that's a 20 minute test if I remember correctly. Therefore if you maintain 105% FTP over 20 mins aren't your are over and above your FTP? Yes I did... though not via the wattbike's in built test as that allows no warmup/cool down logging and hence control, I used IP bike to set a 20 minute interval. But yes, FTP is estimated based on you achieving 105% of FTP in a 20minute test. I'll try out the 110%for an 8 minute test at some point, given the accuracy of the rest of the curve, I expect it to be within a couple of watts.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2015 16:41:04 GMT
r0b1et, is that power curve something you get from Golden Cheetah? I've downloaded that onto the home laptop but not started gathering data as my current setup captures watts but does not talk to anything. I'll be fully linked up after Christmas with ANT dongles, speed and cadence sensors etc. I found the >100% FTP intervals doable for up to 10mins but they never went as high as 110%. Would be good to hear how you get on with those.
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Post by Radchenister on Dec 14, 2015 16:59:12 GMT
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Post by r0b1et on Dec 14, 2015 17:11:04 GMT
r0b1et , is that power curve something you get from Golden Cheetah? I've downloaded that onto the home laptop but not started gathering data as my current setup captures watts but does not talk to anything. I'll be fully linked up after Christmas with ANT dongles, speed and cadence sensors etc. I found the >100% FTP intervals doable for up to 10mins but they never went as high as 110%. Would be good to hear how you get on with those. Yes, CP curve is part of Golden Cheetah, I'll try and do a screen grab when I get home this evening (late though - spin at 8). my 105% for 20 minutes was just dreadful for the last 10 minutes, The only thing that kept me going was knowing if I stopped it had all been a waste of time. I don't have a coach per-see, but my trainer in the gym has worked with a few cyclists and does a lot with rowers, he seems to recommend I try sensible things, but I probably should be more regimented really - I just don't have the $$$ for a coach - if I did, I'd have a power meter first. I now do a mix of: under overs - 2 minutes at ~95% FTP and then 1 minute of ~105% - repeating for 9 minutes - repeat the set 3 times - www.strava.com/activities/4496607372 x 20 - two lots of 20 minutes that are meant to be at FTP. I find the gym too hot usually and that is a limiting factor on the long efforts - www.strava.com/activities/446104816/analysisSprints - fairly self explainatory, mixed interval length from ~6s to a minute - www.strava.com/activities/447629899Cadence - doing higher power (~105%) at various cadances - for me, this is more about coping at lower cadence - www.strava.com/activities/435621987 Sweet Spotting - Sitting in the sweet spot... this is something I can do fairly comfortably at the velodrome, I find it hard at the gym, in a large part because of the heat previously mentioned - At the velodrome the cooling helps, and by riding in a largish fast group I find myself around the sweetspot heart rate for ~1hr in the 1.30 session, going out of the right zone both ways... decent training there, and a decent base. Spinning - I'm not very good at out of the saddle endurance, and that needs work, but I find myself struggling to do that alone, but its something you do a fair amount of in a spin class, so I'm doing at least 1 a week.
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