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Post by Paulinblack on Oct 19, 2016 20:41:30 GMT
So, I'm going round this buoy again. robertsims old turbo trainer is 'no longer with us'. Wondering whether to get one or not? Trying to do a couple of spin classes per week (shifts permitting) plus the commute. Found it hard to motivate myself to get out there in the wind and cold today - Maybe a TT would help motivate me. So, what should I go for? No specific budget in mind. Have read on here about the following which are in the Β£200-350 bracket: - Cycle Ops Fluid 2 - Tacx Vortex - Elite Qubo Fluid - Jet Black Z1/Z2 What should I get ? Secondary question (not to derail the thread): Should I get Zwift, Trainer Road or something else and why? (Please only answer this question after recommending a TT) Thanks
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 20:52:47 GMT
Elite Qubo Fluid Best I've had used mine for over a year now still going stronger than me...
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Post by chas on Oct 19, 2016 22:40:25 GMT
I'm maybe not the best person to answer as I've never used one regularly, but it's something I've thought about and have some knowledge of the different types from having a go at work so here goes. You said the Zwift/trainer road issue was secondary, but as you mention motivation I would put it first. I had a go on Zwift at the cycleshow with VR glasses on and was really impressed, not so much with the 3d but the smart aspect ie being able to ride behind someone and feel the benefit of drafting was amazing. From doing some Wattbike sessions last winter I found having power figures to work to (which the apps give you) very useful so I think a combination of the social element, structured training and having figures to work to could be really motivating and if you need that motivation then I would think about a smart trainer to get the full experience. If you are more self motivated then a more basic trainer will do, a fluid one is more realistic with resistance automatically increasing with speed, with a magnetic one you can alter it manually but it's easier to just change gear. Most will tell you the max resistance in watts and it's worth considering if you want to try sprint efforts as it's fairly easy to 'beat' less expensive/powerful ones. Just to chuck a spanner in the works, if you enjoy the spin classes why not get a spin bike to replicate them at home?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 22:42:48 GMT
I've the CycleOps fluid 2 trainer and I really like it. Very easy to set up and calibrate to get consistent resistance using tyre pressure and the trainers clutch mechanism. Supposed to be quiet compared to others but I've always got headphones on watching TV or listening to music so can't really comment on that.
That trainer, not sure about others, won't connect directly to either Zwift or TrainerRoad, you'll need speed and cadence sensors (you might have them already) and maybe a USB Ant+ dongle depending on the device you use to run the software. For example I used to use a Sunnto movestick mini dongle when running TR on my pic but now I've switched to a phone app I've no need for the dongle as my phone has built in Ant+ connectivity.
For the money you are looking to spend what about a smart trainer, with built in connectivity, for possibly not much more. I recall Chris recently purchased a new Tacx smart trainer. Not sure on model or price.
Pretty sure both software systems will let you try them out for free, TR gives you a month, Zwift I think is 50kms or 14days. Horses for courses on which one you choose. When I was deciding I found Zwift more social as you can hook up with real life or virtual friends, partake in organised virtual rides etc. TR felt to me more focused on you vs your FTP with the training plans.
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Post by denkfaul on Oct 20, 2016 8:20:56 GMT
chas makes a very good point about motivation, and to expand on that I'd say that if you think you might need some help with motivation during workouts / intervals, a smart trainer is probably your best bet. I have an elite qubo fluid which I'm very happy with for now, but as it's self-powered sometimes I do find I slacken off and drop my power by 10% or more during latter intervals in a set. With a smart trainer there's no cheating, you're either hitting the target wattage or you're not pedalling at all. I haven't used a smart trainer with Zwift / TR myself, but I've heard many people say that Zwift is much more immersive with a smart trainer. I use zwift reasonably regularly, once or twice a week, and find it absolutely fine with a fluid trainer, but I am curious about the smart trainers so am keeping an eye out for reviews of cheaper models like the one ChrisD has. If you're a premium strava member you get two free months of zwift a year, on top of the trial period you get. As I pay monthly for Zwift I'll be using this winter's two months to pay for TrainerRoad and see if I can get on with them both simultaneously. I like the workouts in TR, but get very bored looking at the target power numbers and graph and find time in Zwift passes much more quickly.
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Post by Paulinblack on Oct 20, 2016 9:55:05 GMT
Interesting responses thus far guys - keep it up! Interested to hear what ChrisD got? The idea of Zwift interests me, but I'm not 100% sure yet. I have two different types of Garmin speed and cadence sensors on my bikes. So, I assume that means I could go for the fluid trainer? I'm intrigued about the smart trainer though as I think its harder to cheat is the thing makes it more difficult for you rather than telling you to make it more difficult! I intend to run it in the garage. I would like it to be quiet, as the last one I used was a little on the loud side! I've also got to think about a pretty solid one as I'm a big chap. The Tacx ones I've seen pictures of look a little bit flimsy. As for buying a spin bike - I know I said that I had no specific budget, but a Wattbike, although really nice, is way outta my league!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2016 10:07:26 GMT
I have two different types of Garmin speed and cadence sensors on my bikes. So, I assume that means I could go for the fluid trainer? I'm intrigued about the smart trainer though as I think its harder to cheat is the thing makes it more difficult for you rather than telling you to make it more difficult! I've the Garmin crank mounted cadence sensor and the hub mounted speed sensor and both work fine for me with TR. I was experiencing the occasional drop out in readings with their PC App but have no such issues with the Android one running on my phone. I've contacted TR support a few times with technical and non-technical questions, they have always come back quickly and are very helpful (which they should be I suppose as I'm paying a subscription). With TR I can sit there for an hour watching the graphs and reading the instructional text but it does get a tad mind numbing. Nowadays I'll either have a TV show or film playing on my ipad or I'll listen to music.
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Post by Paulinblack on Oct 20, 2016 10:13:56 GMT
I should have said that I don't have a power meter. I assume I don't 'need' one for Zwift and TR? (Puts head down and dives for cover before incoming artillery arrives! I know that fat blokes (whether they are meat eaters or vegans) don't need power meters they just need better engines and more will power to consume less and burn off more!)
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Post by robertsims on Oct 20, 2016 10:34:51 GMT
I use TR and really like it - but never used Zwift so no comparision.
Used to have a CycleOps Fluid 2 and was really pleased with it, then after about 2.5 years it started leaking - lifetime guarantee so sent it back to Wiggle no problem who offered a replacement or refund - took the refund and bopught a Kinetic Road Machine. Equally pleased with it - accept shows much lower power on TR than the fluid 2 did!
Either were good
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Post by r0b1et on Oct 20, 2016 10:36:40 GMT
I should have said that I don't have a power meter. I assume I don't 'need' one for Zwift and TR? (Puts head down and dives for cover before incoming artillery arrives! I know that fat blokes (whether they are meat eaters or vegans) don't need power meters they just need better engines and more will power to consume less and burn off more!) No... Zwift is definitely more immersive than Trainer Road, and with Zwift having workout mode, I think I'll stick with Zwift. I too have the Elite Qubo Fluid - and I rate it highly. But that means I am using virtual power from speed sensor. This isn't 100% great, I carefully set my bike/trainer up exactly as Zwift say, and can confirm my numbers are within ~2% of what I can do on a Wattbike in the gym, so I'm not miles out - yet I am very regularly accused of cheating in Zwift races (which is why I've done so few) - there's a lot of Zpower snobbery on Zwift - even just riding about, and as someone who can't afford/justify a power meter, I am upset by it. If you think you would want to use Zwift in particular, or TrainerRoad probably a smart trainer would be much more immersive and less stressful.
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Post by robertsims on Oct 20, 2016 14:02:14 GMT
I should have said that I don't have a power meter. I assume I don't 'need' one for Zwift and TR? (Puts head down and dives for cover before incoming artillery arrives! I know that fat blokes (whether they are meat eaters or vegans) don't need power meters they just need better engines and more will power to consume less and burn off more!) No... Zwift is definitely more immersive than Trainer Road, and with Zwift having workout mode, I think I'll stick with Zwift. I too have the Elite Qubo Fluid - and I rate it highly. But that means I am using virtual power from speed sensor. This isn't 100% great, I carefully set my bike/trainer up exactly as Zwift say, and can confirm my numbers are within ~2% of what I can do on a Wattbike in the gym, so I'm not miles out - yet I am very regularly accused of cheating in Zwift races (which is why I've done so few) - there's a lot of Zpower snobbery on Zwift - even just riding about, and as someone who can't afford/justify a power meter, I am upset by it. If you think you would want to use Zwift in particular, or TrainerRoad probably a smart trainer would be much more immersive and less stressful. Can you give a 'virtual 2 fingers' to the accusers?
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Post by r0b1et on Oct 20, 2016 14:27:03 GMT
No... Zwift is definitely more immersive than Trainer Road, and with Zwift having workout mode, I think I'll stick with Zwift. I too have the Elite Qubo Fluid - and I rate it highly. But that means I am using virtual power from speed sensor. This isn't 100% great, I carefully set my bike/trainer up exactly as Zwift say, and can confirm my numbers are within ~2% of what I can do on a Wattbike in the gym, so I'm not miles out - yet I am very regularly accused of cheating in Zwift races (which is why I've done so few) - there's a lot of Zpower snobbery on Zwift - even just riding about, and as someone who can't afford/justify a power meter, I am upset by it. If you think you would want to use Zwift in particular, or TrainerRoad probably a smart trainer would be much more immersive and less stressful. Can you give a 'virtual 2 fingers' to the accusers? I normally suggest they send me their power meter so I can prove to them I'm quite capable of the real numbers. But there are issues, people really do cheat and it means that anyone is suspicious... Many races now have decided to not categorise Zpower riders, which to me is totally unfair.
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Post by robertsims on Oct 20, 2016 14:34:47 GMT
Not sure how it works as never used it - might have a look at the free trial but all seems bit complicated - as only use turbo for training and intervals then not sure about Zwift
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Post by r0b1et on Oct 20, 2016 14:52:15 GMT
Not sure how it works as never used it - might have a look at the free trial but all seems bit complicated - as only use turbo for training and intervals then not sure about Zwift Its a little more social, and hence easier to stay motivated. Racing on Zwift makes me push myself very very hard
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2016 15:26:14 GMT
I think to get the most our of either Zwift or TR requires a degree of self motivation.
I'd suggest anyone new to these programs try both out to find which they prefer.
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