is the new t3 worth it

With all due respect, Dan, you're missing my point and not comparing like with like.

What you're illustrating here is indeed an increase in spec, but it's on the next model up, which comes with a considerable price difference. While at the same time, the 3 line loses the carbon fork, a fundamental component in the attraction to that model line in the first place.

The new T5A is now similar to a T3 with the addition of a Sora groupset  but also, more importantly with a very high relative price increase of 43%. It's no longer an even and comparable contest with a £300 bike. In its own right, it's a fantastic spec at a still fantastic price, relative to what else is available from other manufacturers, but it's not the T3 model line any more and it's not £300, it's a T5A costing £430. Oh, and it's not red In fact, if it was any colour other than the grey it is (I've just got a thing about grey, bikes or anything else for that matter) I'd be owning one right now, despite wanting a red T3 so desperately. 

The point I was making was that a newer model in the same range takes everything that any given model already had, and improves on it for a similar price, usually within 10%, up or down, or maybe even lower as often happens as features trickle down from the higher classes.

Hope I've made my point better than last time.

You're right stevo, Arny is not good at maths !

Although to be fair, he's assuming if you wanted the 9 speed then that's the upgrade costs straight, although he's missed the rear cassette and other dérailleur parts, so I really can't see where he's coming from.

So in reality you can't really compare it like that, unless someone specifically says I want a 9 speed (at rear) bike and are considering the T5a or the T3Red with an upgrade - which nobody has said of course and Arny hasn't costed it correctly anyway.

However, lets get onto some pluses and play with some numbers like Arny has; the gearing is better for me personally on the T5a and the group set is nice, I/you/we might even like the SKY-esque styling ... so if I/you/we was at point of buying, it's a tough call ... hang on though, I only know this with hindsight for my own needs in reality; I do/did know I would want better wheels at some point on both options ... I consider this a priority over the 9 speed issue. I've also changed the saddle but got one cheap as chips on eBay, so that's not a big issue either for me - I do far prefer the look / style of the new saddle type over the old though and have an inkling I could have stuck with it, if buying a T5a now (but I/you/we won't/wouldn't actually know this for certain until riding 30+ miles).

Of course I'm not buying now though, so can't really do a like or like on any of this, we're just playing with the ideas; over time when settling into things, I've concluded that fitting an SRAM 11-28 cassette definitely works for me on the Red T3, similarly new wheels and a few other things have also proven themselves in my instance (I'll focus on the wheels and cassette and leave other things out in any calc's, as they aren't really necessary for real world improvements IMO - most people will change tyres, chain, peddles and bar tape etc anyway).

Interestingly, my Mavics and SRAM Cassette cost £135 when added together (I got some bargains), so £300 + £135 = £435; with that I'm on better wheels but have 1 less cog to play with, the shifter types don't really effect me although it would be nice to have the T5a ones, it's not a necessity - can't see that it's an issue for me personally, the gearing is now a good spread for me and I've got the wheels I like on as well at roughly the same price as the T5a - perfectly happy with that spend at just £5 over the standard cost of the new alternative.

I say this about the wheels because despite trying to like them, the standard wheels just don't cut it for me, they flex too much when out the saddle (for the big lads and lasses) so can't be ridden as well when your climbing technique improves - not an issue if you're a skinny fella or sit down all the time but I don't think that's a realistic view if you intend to improve. Many believe that changing wheels is an inevitability if you want to put the bike where it really wants to be in technical terms so I think you do need to think about that additional cost in the mix.

Sorry to be deliberately obtuse, just attempting to show how it's not really a black and white issue.

Don't think the tyres are that much of an issue as you will need to change them at some point being a consumable and the originals aren't terrible, so not included that in the thoughts above but some people might like to as a priority in their own choices of course.

I hope this is helpful for everyone and of course helps Arny as well.

Arny sometimes forgets whether he's in owner mode or sales mode - I am squarely in the owners' camp every time!

Zoltansocrates, i'm afraid that I disagree entirely with your thoughts on Carbon v Steel Forks. I have experienced both, and the difference in steering feel and ride is immense, as is the weight, and from an aesthetic point of view. But hey, that is just my opinion

zoltansocrates - So in short you would recommend the new T3 and its (almost) as good as the previous red one and would stack up well against bikes from other brands in this price bracket?

I must admit I liked the look of the new T3 and the Microshift levers looked much easier to use in the drop position - I just had a hang up on the forks not being carbon but perhaps I'm thinking too much about it and taking note of comments on here. Being new to road biking it sounds like I maybe making too much of it!?

stevo has it there, if you get the new 3a and use the thing regularly you will start to find the bits and bobs that you want to sort out, normally wheels, seats, pedals BUT if you are running a steel for and decide sod it i want carbon then you whip yourself back to decathlon and get them to ordr you a t5 white carbon fork to match your bike, decathlon DO sell the forks separately and i nearly bought one for my other bike before i got the seven, ,my other bike currently runs a steel fork with NO rake and man its a jittery beast, fast and solid but you DO bounce, so thats my turbo bike BUT if i want to use it on the road i think decathlon were asking 58 quid the last time i enquired

you could go chasing the reds, but frankly as they become harder to find youll get frustrated and end up buying that carrera - and that just would not do!