duplo
Peloton Rider
Posts: 206
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Post by duplo on Mar 5, 2016 19:02:31 GMT
I have a major ride coming up in April that I really need to finish, it's 200k with a lot of climbing. The biggest thing I'm worried about is bonking or just plain tiredness.
on all my rides recently I've been deliberately under fuelling, and have now started doing fasted rides in the morning of around 60k with 1000-1200m of climbing. During the event I plan to fuel in a much more structured way at the recommended 60g of carbs per hour and regular hydration. I haven't so far pushed myself out to big distances (100k + ) without some form of fuel.
Thoughts, suggestions, constructive criticism welcome
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Post by r0b1et on Mar 5, 2016 19:15:03 GMT
Sounds like you are doing it right tbh. Take a few gels with you (free SIS ones?!) so if you feel a bonk coming you can get a hit of sugar would be my advice.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2016 20:20:49 GMT
I don't really see the need to ride in a fasted state unless you are trying to drop a few pounds.
You've plenty of time to test and modify your nutrition for the long ride in August, the last thing you want is a dicky tummy part way throught the ride.
My fuel of choice on long rides is small bite sized pieces of pitta bread with jam and peanut butter, 1/2 strength energy drinks and water. I can consume that all day long with no probs. For 1/2 marathons I drink water and take a gel at 10 miles to see me throught to the end. For tri's it's full strength energy drink before the swim, gel at the first transition, 1/2 strength energy drink on the bike etc
This works for me and is tried and tested so is one less thing to worry about before the event.
Edit: caution on taking advice here, believe our poster has misread April (next month) for August (end of summer, 6 months away). Regards, Radchenister.
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duplo
Peloton Rider
Posts: 206
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Post by duplo on Mar 5, 2016 20:24:01 GMT
April, not August. I've four weeks before I taper My logic for riding fasted is that it will hopefully make my body more efficient at burning my own fuel.
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Post by erictherat on Mar 5, 2016 20:29:36 GMT
Fuelling has been a subject to which ive given much thought this year because I am trying to increase the distance of my audaxes. Currently I am doing 200k events, and am trying to sort out finishing feeling comfortable. These are low tempo rides - done at an easy pace. I used to ride events with little thought to fuelling. Leaving home at 6am, means I have little appetite for breakfast, and can only manage half a weetabix. Generally it is a 20 to 30k ride to the event where I eat a slice of toast and tea . While riding I would eat my normal snacks of snickers or flapjack until 100k. At this point I would be starving and eat a big meal; fish, chips and mushy peas or omelette chips and beans etc. For the next hour to hour and half I would feel heavy with low energy, as my body tried to digest. I would finish the event feeling ok. I have bonked once on a long ride - I was feeling great and flying along, ignored a planned dinner stop and 50k later hit a wall - just could not turn the pedals, felt dizzy - was very sudden. I stopped, smoked a cigarette, ate a snikers, drank half a bottle and gave myself a good talking to. after 10 mins, i got going again. 20k later a thankful coop supplied me with sandwich, banana and coke. After that I felt fine. I am trying to be more organised; trying to eat more real food, more often, in smaller portions. My last event, I had one slice of toast on leaving home. At the event start I ate an omelette roll (made the night before), at 50k I had a peanut butter sandwich (premade). At 100k I had an egg sandwich and bag of crisps. At 150k another sandwich, crisps and treat can of coke. At the end I had soup and a cheese roll. While riding I ate 3 mini snickers (4 for a pound size) and half a pack of fruit pastels. I finished 250k feeling better than any long ride before, and didnt have the dip between 100 and 150k. So - my tips = 200k is a full day ride, you need real food; eating sugar all day makes you feel crap - stomachache, an empty feeling, nausea. Digesting big meals while riding is hard (for me). Eat early, eat often, make sure you get a mix of fats, protein, complex and simple carbs. I never use gels, I do have a caffeine gel in my saddlebag for emergency - it has done about 1000k so far. While riding I nibble on snickers bars and fruit pastels, though someone gave me some marzipan on the last ride which was awesome, will definitely be some in my bag for next event. For drinks - I carry a little sealable bag with LoSalt (contains sodium AND potassium), sprinkle a little pinch to 1/4 tsp in every bottle - far cheaper than those tablet things. I thought it would taste bad, but find it easier to drink than plain water, it is somehow "softer". My garmin has an alarm set for every 15mins as a drink reminder. Sounds like you are doing great with training rides. I am also trying to do some fasted rides. I dont think they should be at intensity or particularly long - 1 hour is plenty. I really aint an expert, this is just my personal experience, and I am still trying to get it right. Everyone is different and needs different food. find what works for you. One of the great pleasures of cycling is the added enjoyment of food it brings. dont miss out on cake by sucking horrible gels! good advice here : www.aukweb.net/hints/nutrition/
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Post by Radchenister on Mar 5, 2016 22:35:53 GMT
I'd listen to the slow burn 'fill yourself with real food' advice from Ratters, rather than the 'smashing the sugar' riding some of the race / sportive people like r0b1et and to some extent I might do (although I'm probably more in erictherat 's camp for keeping the tank ticking over at a nice level, rather than the sloshing the sugar mindset). Aiming for 200km at moderate pace is squarely about endurance in my book as that's 8 hours at 25km/h (at least it would be wise to view it that way when you first do it I reckon), not so much about sugar / glycogen based 'smashing it' riding than get yourself fueled in a sustainable way and just keep going all day. If you're trained to the distance required and don't smash it, you should be heading more into maintaining a better fat to glycogen / carb top up balance anyway with your HR low enough to ensure this is happening - too late to go dabbling now I reckon. If aiming for an April event, I'd just be after riding more distance now (that's the number one priority in my book!) and practicing fueling in a way that I'd intend to on the day, with just a few weeks to go, I can't see the point in doing anything else. Can't see me ever aiming to ride past a 100 kms on no fuel whatsoever really - yes, it's possible I reckon but you would need to ride slowly enough to keep your HR down and the fat to glycogen balance real low - I think even Audaxers (who are less impressed by average speeds) still like to get to places before pubs shut.
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duplo
Peloton Rider
Posts: 206
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Post by duplo on Mar 5, 2016 22:43:24 GMT
Thanks guys, I should mention that this is a gravel race with 3500m of climbing and enforced cut off times, so if I get a mechanical I may have to rag it for a while. Currently aiming for 18-20kph average including stops
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Post by Radchenister on Mar 5, 2016 23:02:43 GMT
So 10+ hrs at moderate pace, so comments still apply, getting out and riding long hilly gravel rides should be the priority I reckon, not fasting yourself - need carbs to train, need to train long to be ready for it.
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Post by erictherat on Mar 5, 2016 23:42:01 GMT
Thanks guys, I should mention that this is a gravel race with 3500m of climbing and enforced cut off times, so if I get a mechanical I may have to rag it for a while. Currently aiming for 18-20kph average including stops Is that the Kielder forest ride? girl i was riding with on last audax was doing that. looks very tough
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Post by erictherat on Mar 5, 2016 23:58:13 GMT
So 10+ hrs at moderate pace, so comments still apply, getting out and riding long hilly gravel rides should be the priority I reckon, not fasting yourself - need carbs to train, need to train long to be ready for it. I think I know the ride, and it would be quite some feat to do it in 10 hrs. A flat 200k takes me about 10 hours, though I am not quick at controls, it is 8 and half hours moving time. Looking at course, Id imagine 12- 13hrs+ total time. I dont agree that you need to ride long distance to be fit to ride all day. I just ride my normal 30 min commutes. The trick to long distance is patience. Ride within your limits, never out of breath, stay comfortable, if you never stress your system you can tick on all day. since you gonna be out all day - make sure you got enough layers. you not going to be riding at an intensity to generate a lot of heat. And when tired, you feel the chill. It is just a matter of getting your head into a different mode. slow down. dont be in a hurry - it is pleasant not to be for once. Take in the scenery, chat to folk. Enjoy the ride, relax. and eat.
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duplo
Peloton Rider
Posts: 206
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Post by duplo on Mar 6, 2016 7:06:12 GMT
All good advice thanks! I've been averaging 20kph for 100k with 1500m climbs on a mountain bike so getting there slowly. The plan is exactly that, ride easy, enjoy myself and get round well fed and watered! The 10 hours is massively aspirational . Yes it's the kielder ride
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Post by Radchenister on Mar 6, 2016 7:18:10 GMT
Fairly convinced the main issue I had at Ride London was lack of distance the last three or so weeks leading in ... but then I rode it hard at a 32 kmh average for 5 hours, if I was riding big at say 20kmh for 10+ I might be in agreement on not having trained to distance (perhaps consider doing it at least once on weekends at 2 to 3 weeks out but preferably asap to test your system) - seeing it as a series of short rides tagged between meals but it's not my cup of tea to spend all day ambling about, unless say 'site seeing'. Sounds to me like calling it a 'race' is the wrong approach, as I'd want to actually race, not amble along pretending the time at the end mattered - I'm assuming here that they're not going to kick you off the course of course .
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Post by Radchenister on Mar 6, 2016 7:38:17 GMT
... I mean, seriously, suggesting 1/2 hr rides and a 'take it easy' mind set will do it for a long hilly off road course - I need to flag that as an 'at your own risk' approach, we don't want newbs scouring the internet then thinking they'll just ride to work for a few months before tackling 200km of gravel trails, safe in the knowledge that erictherat on the BROC forum said it's going to be OK !
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Post by Radchenister on Mar 6, 2016 7:54:17 GMT
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Post by erictherat on Mar 6, 2016 8:03:48 GMT
All good advice thanks! I've been averaging 20kph for 100k with 1500m climbs on a mountain bike so getting there slowly. The plan is exactly that, ride easy, enjoy myself and get round well fed and watered! The 10 hours is massively aspirational . Yes it's the kielder ride great stuff - looks a brilliant ride. Have fun
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