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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2013 20:52:06 GMT
......for £299 or the 'new' T5a for £429 had they been available at the same time?
Question is purely academic, of course....but would be interested to know what you think? Arny says his customers won't even LOOK at a Red T3 now they have a 5a to fondle....but I think that £130 price difference is more than meets the eye.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2013 21:04:25 GMT
I could have ordered a 5A online but chose to reserve and buy the original T3. Still don't think you can go past it for value. And it is red which I like better anyway.
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Post by ozzrahog on Apr 1, 2013 21:19:57 GMT
I'm really not sure, had to go for the 5 as I don't live anywhere near a shop to pick up a 3. On saying that would probably have gone for the 5 based on the gears and colour
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Post by Radchenister on Apr 1, 2013 21:23:32 GMT
I think 'the legendary red 2011/2012 T3' is exactly that - soon to be the stuff of legend and specific to a particular point in time, one when you could buy such a bike at a bargain price, likely due to expanding and changing markets, combined with the popularity of cycling in the UK during the Wiggins TdF / Olympic summer of sport ... it had to be a loss leader; the new bikes are great mind, they just don't offer the same VFM (IMO) - credit where it's due though, the new customers are the ones who's opinions count now and cold hard statistics will be the true indicator. The Triban name is set up now though and time will tell.
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Post by Big Brother on Apr 1, 2013 21:24:52 GMT
When I bought my T£ I had the choice as well between T£ & T5. I obviously went for the T3 as it represented brilliant value for money. There are still a lot of people out there who appear to be now becoming desperate to buy the original T3. I wouldn't say people "won't look at a red T3" The original T3 is still a desirable bike for many. Don't forget the reviews it received.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2013 22:15:12 GMT
As I was a novice to road cycling I didn't want to break the bank, so the T3 seemed like a great price for a great bike. I absolutely love the bike and have no regrets with my choice. I do however think the new T5 is also a great bike for the money, but it is nearly 50% more expensive. As Rad says though, I think the T3 will become quite iconic as the brand grows in this country. We may find our bikes lose very little value as they get older, when the old T3's become unavailable. They may even gain value (as they were basically under priced in the first place), particularly if you have one of the more rare frame sizes (mine is a 63).
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2013 22:19:49 GMT
Baring in mind red, your t3, when purchasing it was being compared to the t5 like mine. There is a difference ther and that is y it was soo successful. What we are trying to ask is which 1 do you like more. The T3 2012 or the T5 2013. Btwin havent changed the frames or changed geometries, just changed the spec and colour. Me personally i find the T5 is more for your money, you get this seasons sora with the secondary shifter rather than the sprinter shifter which the old t3 has got and IMO, it has got a nicer colour scheme. I do like the colour scheme MORE than my T5. Don't get me wrong i love my T5 as it has sentimental value, but i just love the new look.
You are correct people to want the t3 but the thing is the people who can get the choice, id say 70% are picking the other options, over the 30 that are. Evidence. A chap today bought the t3 online, came to collect it but noticed he had the sprinter shifters. Now he could have easily bought some more shifters and kept the happy T3 but he noticed for how much it could cost him to do that, he put the extra and got the t5 as his words were "more for your money".
Yes the t3 if better VFM but the t5 is more MFYM.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2013 22:21:04 GMT
Y not poll it and c what people pick. T3 2012 £300 Or T5 2013 £430
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2013 22:44:48 GMT
Baring in mind red, your t3, when purchasing it was being compared to the t5 like mine. There is a difference ther and that is y it was soo successful. What we are trying to ask is which 1 do you like more. The T3 2012 or the T5 2013. Btwin havent changed the frames or changed geometries, just changed the spec and colour. Me personally i find the T5 is more for your money, you get this seasons sora with the secondary shifter rather than the sprinter shifter which the old t3 has got and IMO, it has got a nicer colour scheme. I do like the colour scheme MORE than my T5. Don't get me wrong i love my T5 as it has sentimental value, but i just love the new look. You are correct people to want the t3 but the thing is the people who can get the choice, id say 70% are picking the other options, over the 30 that are. Evidence. A chap today bought the t3 online, came to collect it but noticed he had the sprinter shifters. Now he could have easily bought some more shifters and kept the happy T3 but he noticed for how much it could cost him to do that, he put the extra and got the t5 as his words were "more for your money". Yes the t3 if better VFM but the t5 is more MFYM. What do you mean the customer noticed he had sprinter shifters and wanted to change them. The exact problem with the old Shimano 2300 8 speed shifters is that they had thumbshifters which could not be operated from the drops, which is where you would be if sprinting. The new shimano claris (code 2400) has in line with all other shimano road groupsets reverted to an inboard lever sweep for both up and down block changes. The only groupsets with specifc "sprinters" levers are the shimano Durace DI2 electronic group / and Campag Eps groupsets., which have an ancillary set of buttons fitted inside the drops so sprinters can remain in that position. I think you make a Mute point in order to up sell models for Decathlon, Wait until the end of the year and see if you have shifted as many new Triban 5's in 2013/14 as you did original Triban 3s in 2012/13, I doubt it. Dropping the alloy fork on the Triban 3 will undoubtedly effect sales of that model, but I dont think the 5 will sell as well as the old T3 ever did as it will be up against more stiffer competition at that price point. The original Triban 3 was a never to be repeated bargain, I dont think the same is true of any of the bikes in the range this year.
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Post by phred1812 on Apr 2, 2013 8:09:57 GMT
I agree Magic. A never to be repeated bargain. I would prefer the "Sprinter" shifters that are now on the Claris and more upmarket Shimano kit but the thumbshifters are not a big issue as far as I am concerned. I wonder how many T3 owners actually use the drops on a regular basis and indulge in sprints? I imagine if anyone was that keen on competition they would not buy a T3 in the first place, great though it is.
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Post by Radchenister on Apr 2, 2013 10:13:03 GMT
You see - my buddy who retired from international triathlon last year and was a sponsored bike owner for a few years thought the exact opposite to you and your recent example Dan . A poll on here will not be much of an indication as it will be based on a small snapshot of already biased owners - the only true indicator will be the end of year records but they will be for a different scenario anyway if the Red T3 is on the way out it won't be comparable data, the weather and how Froome does at the TdF might play a part (but most of us are unlikely to ever see the facts). Interesting debate though; Dan, we appreciate your input / opinion but to us 'old gits', who've been around a bit and perhaps sourced products for decades both professionally and personally, we're not going to be swayed by a single personal opinion. To some it might look like you can't make your mind up whether you're a salesman or an owner. This is not a problem of course, as everyone is allowed a viewpoint and different opinions are what makes the world interesting but I prefer the Dan who is talking as an owner and not trying to justify a company's stance - I think Decathlon is big enough and ugly enough to stand on its own merits without your help, in fact, a little helpful big brotherly advice below which you are welcome to take or leave but it's meant well. I get perhaps 6 or 7 sales / product calls a day, as well as perhaps 100 e-mails and 20 items in the post, by far the most successful product positioning is with the products that don't need to be argued for; in my experience, people / situations have a natural level and good sales technique aims to find that, it doesn't impose a solution on a scenario, it looks for balance; the approach of forging a deal might work once or twice but it doesn't equate to long term happy customers - from my visits to Decathlon over Europe and nearer to home, I think Decathlon stands for having many egalitarian products that suit every day people naturally, i.e. functional and set at a good price, it does have some more high brow items as well but I don't think it stands for hard selling (or does it?) ! My opinion is that whilst the new bikes are fine, the Red 2011/2012 T3 is/was outstanding VFM - the new T5a is great but it is £130 more than the £300 for the T3 (43% more expensive) - you can't argue that that is a small price rise, even if as a product it (the 5a) does have some attractive pluses, £130 is still a lot of money to many in the current climate; the T3 sold itself (yes it had good reviews but that only enforced what people could see with their own eyes) - having to get into the minutiae of the group-set details as justification for the 5a is alienating, it most likely totally baffles the newbies and might come over as smoke and mirrors. I would prefer if people just acknowledged that it's a product of a business, Decathlon is not a charity and things move on. The Red T3 was perhaps offered in a unique set of circumstances which weren't likely sustainable in the long term but this was fortunate for the owners who benefited at the time - stating that the current bikes are still good even at the different price points makes sense, this is a far more straight forward stance to take on the situation. ... all of course IMO!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2013 11:21:23 GMT
I think at £300 the "Old T3" represented a level of investment that most new or returning bikers where willing to dip a toe in the water to see if they took to the sport. I ve sheds full of golf gear that is gathering dust, but was all bought or borrowed on the cheap, so the fact that I dont play now doesnt really constitute any major financial loss on my part.
At £300 owners of the Triban 3 got an exceptional bike which invariably if they decided road biking didnt appeal to them, could still be re sold for at least 75% on the initial purchase price.
I would summise that the original T3 is such a great bike, many where also purchased by experienced road cyclists as Winter/Commuter hack, rather than building up an old frame (my case, and then I was blown away by how good the bike was)or Have been that good that they have got people into the sport who have subsequently upgraded.
I dont think the new T3 or T5 will have the same appeal.
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Post by phred1812 on Apr 2, 2013 12:00:10 GMT
Point well made Rads. I was beginning to feel that the forum was supported by Decathlon. We all like the product or we wouldn't have bought into it in the first place. We are mature enough to make our own judgement in what is good value or not in our own particular circumstances.
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bojer
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Post by bojer on Apr 2, 2013 13:00:31 GMT
My opinion is that whilst the new bikes are fine, the Red 2011/2012 T3 is/was outstanding VFM - the new T5a is great but it is £130 more than the £300 for the T3 (43% more expensive) - you can't argue that that is a small price rise, even if as a product it (the 5a) does have some attractive pluses, £130 is still a lot of money to many in the current climate; the T3 sold itself (yes it had good reviews but that only enforced what people could see with their own eyes) - having to get into the minutiae of the group-set details as justification for the 5a is alienating, it most likely totally baffles the newbies and might come over as smoke and mirrors. Agree 100% , it might be "only" £130 but it is an over 40% increase on the red T3 price , the Red T3 did seem a unique buy at that level - a genuine "no brainer" . Once you get to the £500 mark there are other choices that could be made - from dare I say it other manufacturers . I still belive that if Decathon sorted their website out to read a whole lot more "English" with proper specs and less "trainee marketing" phrases they could be a serious contender even with the loss of the Red T3 . In answer to the question I am very happy with my Red T3
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2013 15:06:53 GMT
Interesting debate though; Dan, we appreciate your input My opinion is that whilst the new bikes are fine, the Red 2011/2012 T3 is/was outstanding VFM - the new T5a is great but it is £130 more than the £300 for the T3 (43% more expensive) - you can't argue that that is a small price rise, even if as a product it (the 5a) does have some attractive pluses, £130 is still a lot of money to many in the current climate; the T3 sold itself (yes it had good reviews but that only enforced what people could see with their own eyes) - having to get into the minutiae of the group-set details as justification for the 5a is alienating, it most likely totally baffles the newbies and might come over as smoke and mirrors. I would prefer if people just acknowledged that it's a product of a business, Decathlon is not a charity and things move on. The Red T3 was perhaps offered in a unique set of circumstances which weren't likely sustainable in the long term but this was fortunate for the owners who benefited at the time - stating that the current bikes are still good even at the different price points makes sense, this is a far more straight forward stance to take on the situation. ... all of course IMO! Some very good points Rad............are you sober when you hit the forum??! How does that work? I would tend to agree with most of what you said....the old T3 was circumstantial in so many ways....right place-right time........in short - a marketing 'hit' for Decathlon and a coup for us punters. Things move on. Especially in marketing and retail I guess. When the supply of t3's dries up people will gravitate naturally to the next greatest thing if they have a mind to. Could be the T5...T3a or something lurking in the wings from another retailer. God..........marketing is a world apart!! For the record..........I WOULD still have bought the T3 knowing what little I knew then!But you are right - at the time I could easily have been swayed by smoke and mirrors. I know better now...and-to their credit-do not feel deceived by Decathlon and their Tribanisms. And (having just come back from a 20 mile spin) I still think it is a sensational bike for the money. I also think it is sensational that we have our own forum and people like Dan to contribute 'from the horses mouth', regardless of whether he feels inclined to take the company line or speak more for himself. I find both points of view equally interesting. Best w
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