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Post by chas on Sept 10, 2016 8:31:26 GMT
I use them on my track bike, not a fair test using rollers as that magnifies the advantage but they are good.
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Post by Rocket on Sept 10, 2016 11:06:53 GMT
I bought a pair of Michelin AirComp latex tubes. I fitted them to a pair of GP4000Sii and did an 86 mile solo ride including a few short climbs at an average speed of over 20mph. The difference was certainly noticeable for me. I also used them on the Christie's 100 mile sportive last weekend to devastating effect. I have removed them for everyday training but they will be going back in for my next event.
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Post by r0b1et on Sept 10, 2016 12:32:04 GMT
I bought a pair of Michelin AirComp latex tubes. I fitted them to a pair of GP4000Sii and did an 86 mile solo ride including a few short climbs at an average speed of over 20mph. The difference was certainly noticeable for me. I also used them on the Christie's 100 mile sportive last weekend to devastating effect. I have removed them for everyday training but they will be going back in for my next event. I've been planning to give them a go, just get frustrated that rarely can I find long valves sensibly priced.
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Post by Paulinblack on Sept 23, 2016 21:44:14 GMT
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Post by Rocket on Sept 24, 2016 8:58:30 GMT
Perhaps it is time to split the peloton up into those who are totally clean and those waving TUEs? A bit like the Paralympics where athletes are split according to their disabilities. After all those taking such substances are effectively claiming they are disabled and need these lotions and potions to compete on a level playing field with those who take nothing. Now if we were then to say only those taking nothing would be eligible for the overall wins with the rest competing for separate awards do you think a lot of "asthma sufferers" would suddenly be cured?
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Post by Radchenister on Sept 24, 2016 10:58:54 GMT
This presumes they're faking, some might be but I doubt it's as many as people might assume. I have occasionally had exercise induced Asthma during my younger years, usually when run down, or when doing sport in cold conditions; it's not terrible and I've only had a short spell of time on medication for it (for about a week when in my 20s) but can vouch for it being real and occasionally affects ability - having my airwaves restrict was not a permanent condition for me, I can remember the incidences that happened on a sports field on 3 occasions, perhaps it also happened half a dozen more times when out running at night. I don't get it these days but can imagine having needed more medication when younger if training and riding at that level, rather than just taking time off as you do as a leisure sportsman. I've also recently ridden my bike on pain killers, last year for rotator cuff and at the ToB charity event, due to broken ribs, I don't see these three ailments as any different, none of them permanent in my case, I wouldn't be claiming a disabled parking badge on the back of them for certain. I couldn't conclude either way on the legitimacy of use for others but it appears we have a lot of armchair specialists in this world now who will, ones who are happy to offer their diagnosis based on their broad knowledge of the Murdoch press . In my view, if legitimate use of medication via TUE is sanctioned by specialists, then who are we to judge? ... but then everyone has an opinion and we're free to speak of course, unfortunately though, the perpetually offended are normally the biggest voice and call fowl at every available opportunity. While I believe the internet has empowered people in various ways, there's also a plethora of nonsense being pedalled as normal practice now ... however, this one is disappointing. It's a live and die by the sword scenario, these situations have a habit of catching people out if they make bold claims. Wiggins is himself known to put his foot in his mouth in the media, sometimes on purpose defiantly but also with ill-advised opinions (remember helmets and earphones?) - he was unwise to claim the 'no needles' position in his biography. Presumably by standing by his claims, he considered these TUE incidences a legitimate illness and that they didn't count (as opposed to non-essential medications, such as vitamin injections etc that Millar discussed in his book, where it conditioned young riders to expect needles regularly, making the switch to EPO and other performance enhancers an easy step). Big subject this one, I'd need to chat to some Doctor friends to suss if they think it's nonsense or not but do suspect if you start calling foul of every TUE user in the current enclave, then you'd end up with a peloton of perhaps a handful of riders.
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Post by Radchenister on Sept 24, 2016 11:14:46 GMT
PS - questions I'd ask a specialist; 1. Talk me through the circumstances, diagnosis, application and assessment process for these TUEs? 2. Talk me through whether these are precautionary, or as a response to symptoms i.e. vaccination v medication? 3. Talk me through the perceived performance enhancement in terms of athletic performance, endurance? 4. Talk me through the weight loss potential and if this is helpful in terms of fat loss, as opposed to just taking care with diet? 5. Explain the timing? Once someone who knows their stuff could input on those questions, we might be better informed.
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Post by Rocket on Sept 24, 2016 11:25:50 GMT
Some people are born predisposed to asthma and are allowed to take substances to bring them up to the level of people who don't. I'm born with a sub-par cardiovascular system but I'm not allowed to take EPO to level the playing field.
If someone is better than you then that's just how it is. True champions are born and crafted through training not laboratory assisted.
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Post by william39 on Sept 24, 2016 11:35:49 GMT
It would be nice if he came out and admitted that he was using the rules to his advantage but somehow don't think it is going to happen. A bit like tax avoidance by Google, Amazon etc. no rules broken but doesn't make it morally any better.
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Post by Radchenister on Sept 24, 2016 17:53:21 GMT
I'd like to know the full picture, with input from an expert or two - as trial by Russian hacker / internet / newspaper is hardly scientific. Reckon it is feasible that it's an issue that's abused a tad by sportspeople but on the other hand, it could be a genuine ailment thing for many - have to disagree on exercise induced Asthma being a disability ... and still don't fully understand how it's a method of cheating (be it actual or morally). If it is definitely cheating, then would like to know the extent the drugs actually help and in what way, when compared to those benefits achieved by normal 'training', or training at altitude for example; where does this end, the UCI have to decree that no-one who's ever taken any medicine / drugs is allowed to compete in sport at all? IMO logic suggests that if the drugs are used genuinely, say for curing breathing congestion, or some other genuine ailment, then what's the problem? If all it does is say open the airways back up to normal operation, then that's just treating a temporary health issue; if the particular drugs used offer other performance enhancing side effects, other than treating the ailment, then let's hear what those are? Preferably we get this from an expert - from my experience with the stuff I had, it was pretty useless at curing the ailment, reckon it wouldn't have had me climbing hills any faster if I didn't have constricted airways, let alone actually help the ailment itself - only used it perhaps three times before concluding it was not worth the effort anyway - perhaps they keep the special gear for cyclists? . I don't get the Asthma issue anymore at all and never got it all the time when I was younger, fairly rare in fact - was surprised when a doctor diagnosed it, as I went in on a very rare GP visit (I go in about once every few years), with lungs feeling shredded and a bad cough I couldn't shake, so also don't understand that whilst it's an ailment for some, how it might not be for others? For me, it was much like catching a cold and was associated with other ailments in winter ... I'm assuming that's why it's allowed to be treated this way in pro cycling and a TUE is in theory applicable without any 'moral issues' attached - whether Wiggins is taking the p1ss, I really don't know though, it's a subject that we'll have to wait and hear more about and I'd like someone to try and answer my list of questions. Do we have any Doctors as members (that we don't know about)?
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Post by Radchenister on Sept 24, 2016 18:11:00 GMT
It would be nice if he came out and admitted that he was using the rules to his advantage but somehow don't think it is going to happen. A bit like tax avoidance by Google, Amazon etc. no rules broken but doesn't make it morally any better. If that's the case, then he could say it, no issues whatsoever - just destruction by media to deal with (which could happen anyway in this crazy world), his 'brand' would be dented but probably not his cycling record !
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Post by Paulinblack on Sept 24, 2016 19:45:12 GMT
I find it amazing that so many top class athletes in a world of marginal gains and cultivating athletes based upon genetic pre-disposition have fundamental problems breathing - I don't buy it! BTW, my 3 sons (who are all national level and national level age group athletes) had exercise induced asthma - They all grew out of it way before they got good at their chosen sport.
I was appalled when I watched the Panorama expose a while ago (Catch Me If You Can) that was aimed at (amongst others) Mo Farah's coach, Alberto Salazar. It was claimed that they were (allegedly) testing the athlete and then prescribing drugs to inch up testosterone levels etc to 'remain within tolerance' rather than because the athlete needed it. That, to me, is cheating. All this stuff about about Maria Sharapova (and others) taking meldonium, is cheating. Taking an artificial drug to improve performance is cheating. I hasten to add that I have no problems with natural products eg beetroot juice, carb loading through food, milk etc.
I don't like the thought of Russian hackers exposing people's private information. But I also don't like the inference in the report. Finally, I don't know what this drug does, what amount is needed, what it is found in etc. But, it looks as if the sport's governing body were aware and sanctioned it. Hopefully it wasn't a 'marginal gains' thing and was indeed 'needed'.
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Post by william39 on Sept 24, 2016 20:55:11 GMT
Corticosteroid injection nothing to do with asthma from what I have read, apparently used in Wiggins case for 'severe hayfever' which conveniently changed time of year in 2013 days before the Giro. Not had a chance to discuss directly with my brother yet who is a GP. Maybe he can sort me out with a prescription!
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Post by william39 on Sept 24, 2016 20:57:54 GMT
Taking an artificial drug to improve performance is cheating. I hasten to add that I have no problems with natural products eg beetroot juice, carb loading through food, milk etc. Where would you stand on caffeine then Paul? Double espresso ok but a couple of Pro Plus tablets cheating?
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Post by Radchenister on Sept 24, 2016 21:05:56 GMT
Paulinblack , we need to watch anecdotes and qualify them as opinions mind, re your sons growing out of it - I was diagnosed with exercise-induced asthma circa 1995; I was 27, I'd not had issues for perhaps a decade previously but once it was described as an issue by the GP, I realised I'd had it years previously at certain times ... I've either since grown out of it, or perhaps more accurately, just become a leathery old rule #5 git who's aging cells spit in the face of irritations .
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