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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2013 9:58:50 GMT
Radchenister posted a while back in a thread I can no longer find about proper use of the front cogs. Prior to reading it I'd been pretty much treating the middle as my 'go to' utility gear, venturing off it onto the big cog when I could and hardly ever - can count on one hand the times I have used it - the granny cog (that's an indication of the general terrain I ride rather than any uber-fitness ). Rad's advice (paraphrasing!) was that the big dog cog should be the default position, moving to the others as situations dictate. I've been focusing on putting that into practice over the last month (bar the two weeks off I've just had) and I'm really pleased with the results. I've consciously not been switching on cadence recording on Cyclemeter/Strava as I know this will have slipped a little, but my head tells me not too far, and wanted to focus on the technique and right gear use. Think I'll record cadence tomorrow (if I remember!). So now on my regular commute to work and back (about 17 miles in total, 1,000ft climbing) I've been staying on the big front cog, even for the two hills that would usually have meant dropping to the middle and lowest gear at rear. It feels much better and what I should be doing with my legs. The challenge now is to up my leg strength so I can up my cadence and move up the rear cogs for cruising on the flats - I think I am currently using the third lowest rear gear at the minute. If anyone else is interested in pushing it a little and have some 'usual' regular routes they do (a commute is perfect) I would advise giving this a go if you aren't doing so already (and if any of the above makes sense!). Finally, cheers Radchenister! Great initial post, wherever it is!
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Post by captslog on Sept 25, 2013 10:19:51 GMT
I thought he said the middle was the default?,* but not arguing, it's probably my memory or was someone else in the same thread. I remembered the thread because I said that I was rarely off the big ring and he replied "show us your Strava" . Anyways, as I said above, it's very unusual for me to change off the big ring. I DO ride mainly on the flat and most 'humps' can be taken at speed and relying on the carry-through. I climbed a biggish hill the other week that had me gasping, I was on the middle and lowest on the cassette and still having problems, when I tried for the 'granny ring' it didn't even change! It'd been so long unused that it was out of adjustment. Edit. *You were right. Found the thread here... triban3owners.freeforums.net/thread/646/cadence
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2013 10:59:48 GMT
Phew captslog! I could have been doing it all completely wrong! Know what you mean about the granny ring, think I should oil it as I'm sure it feels unloved! Or maybe just hit some proper hills...
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Post by captslog on Sept 25, 2013 11:10:37 GMT
Just an aside here.
I often see on posts where a members name comes up in blue (as a link) and if it's done on mine it shows in my profile as "tagged". How is this done?
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Post by william39 on Sept 25, 2013 11:19:15 GMT
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Post by Radchenister on Sept 25, 2013 11:19:50 GMT
That's not exactly what I meant now is it @perniciousviper ! I was playing devil's advocate in balance mode to the training high cadences all the time idea, advocating pushing on the 'dawg ring' for keeping the pace up sometimes and not sitting spinning when you can push a bigger gear. I'm not saying it's the best thing to do all the time, as the gears are supposed to help ... but when it works then great ... I'm now pushing near or just over 30 kmh averages on 1 - 1n1/2 hr runs as a result of doing this (only sometimes when feeling up for it) but do have to back off and spin sometimes, as I can feel my legs slowing and straining too much - this happened a few times just last night. For what it's worth, having the big cog churning well on the right hand side of the cassette is happy fast on the level or slight incline / decline cycling - the woohoo stuff we all get a rush from.
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Post by captslog on Sept 25, 2013 11:26:01 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2013 11:36:17 GMT
Yep Radchenister, that last line holds true for most of my routine riding, along the flat with a couple of hillocks to negotiate. To be fair I did say use the big cog where appropriate. For me, I am enjoying trying to keep my cadence where it was on the middle ring while stepping it up in the big cog. This, in my mind at least - and if I'm not just replicating the same gearing! - should push my speed up. I see a lot of riders using the big ring/slow cadence style, in fact I'm impressed they move so fast for so few revolutions. Most are on hybrids or MTBs though and I don't think they have any other style. Probably don't need one. It's good to be able to balance the two approaches and bring each into play where needed. But, as you also note, sometimes we just don't get a say in the matter and our legs dictate what's needed!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2013 11:40:00 GMT
Sitting in the big ring might be good for training and trying to increase leg strength as it will be harder to push, but surely you should be picking the ratio that gives you a cadence of approx. 90 at the speed you want to go? Middle cog at the front and middle cog at the back would give you roughly the same ratio but with a lower chain angle. Looking at this calculator if you set allowable chain angle to low you can see a nice progression through the gears while keeping straining on the gearing to a minimum (using 9 speed as I was looking at it for my bike, but you can change it to an 8 speed): Gear Calculator
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Post by Radchenister on Sept 25, 2013 13:38:35 GMT
You won't be whacking any Segments or clocking 30+ kmh averages if you don't get the big ring spinning @harley - most of the boys on here who're clocking pace will tackle level stuff in the big ring if rocking on ! I've also given a more comprehensive pointers set of issues for everyday use on another thread which I'll find in a minute.
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Post by Radchenister on Sept 25, 2013 13:46:23 GMT
PS - the rear cassette won't drop below right of middle and the 3rd or maybe the 4th max on a pacey run. In the one below we did two laps of the local deer park, I was chasing a tri racer (retired) mate of mine and it was big ring all the way, if it wasn't, I would have been dropped and he'd given me 3 lives - I didn't lose any : app.strava.com/activities/72196368
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2013 13:55:22 GMT
Certainly for 20+mph speeds like in that ride the big cog will be needed, but for anything below 20mph the big cog isn't really needed and a better position for the chain can be gained from the middle cog.
Though if trying to stay in the big cog helps as a way of trying to push yourself and keep the pace up then that is a good idea. Certainly for my averages riding around 10-15mph the big cog isn't used for most of it, but I do get into it occasionally and not just for downhills.
Just trying to build up a base level of fitness at the moment, hopefully I can start getting into the big cog more often soon - can't beat the feeling of whizzing along using it.
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Post by Radchenister on Sept 25, 2013 14:07:33 GMT
Yep, we've all been through your stage, I'm trying to help the longer standing members push on a bit, passing on what I've learnt from better riders and have sussed through riding the bike a lot as well - below is what I said a while back for advice to total newbies (which you're not of course as you're sussing it out). General ------------ Anyone expecting to cross chain from outer cogs front to rear, is expecting too much from the geometries of a triple IMO; if people remember that it's only really the outer two gears on each end of the block that make a difference when on the granny or the dawg ring, they'll suss there's little point in doing this. Some usage tips to work on for a few rides until it comes naturally: Aim to think about the rear cassette as either leftside, rightside or middle - not much point in getting gear specific, just work on cadence. Aim to spin a good cadence and pre plan the front cog moves so they're not desperate, forced or rushed. Do this by scanning terrain ahead continually and changing whilst spinning an easy smooth motion - concentrate on the feel of how the levers operate when done well and try for this every time. Aim to avoid having the dawg up front crossed onto the left rear. Similarly, aim to avoid having the granny up front crossed on the right rear. Aim to get off the granny as soon as practicable when going over crests and getting on the levels. Get the 'up one (front), down one (rear)' concept in your head to assist with making this smooth. Similarly, when dropping onto the granny to get climbing, pre-empt the need, do it early and get 'down one (front), up one (rear)' concept sorted. Middle cog up front is for transitional riding over tumpy terrain but you can also do this on the dawg ring to some extent if you can keep the pace up and not cross chain too much, work on judging when to pick the middle over the dawg ring by sussing the appropriate speed you can handle for the terrain. When getting on with it, aim to get in the dawg ring as soon as practicable but not at the expense of good cadence - remember 'up one (front), down one (rear)' here as well. From here: triban3owners.freeforums.net/user/15/recent?page=27#ixzz2fufpmveC
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Post by captslog on Sept 25, 2013 14:47:17 GMT
Interesting the bit about "middle cog for riding over tumpy terrain".
Not exactly the same thing I know, but there is a small section of one of the rides i go on with my son where the road is just absolutely terrible for about 200m. It's actually part of the cycle path would you believe, but the surface knocks any rhythm out of you and our speed falls; it's also a slight incline
One way I found to combat it is to change to a higher gear than required just before, and this allows me to stand on the pedals over the rough whilst keeping the drive on. If I was in a low gear I'd be spinning too fast to make standing comfortable.
I got the idea from a young lady I see from my car on the way to work. She has a bike that looks to be too big for her and I rarely see her on the seat. She stands most of the time and rides "pump pump pump pump coast.....pump pump pump pump coast.......". She is as fit as a butcher's dog BTW, and seems to know what she's doing, sort of treating the bike like a cross trainer I suppose.
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Post by Radchenister on Sept 25, 2013 15:22:06 GMT
I'd describe that as keeping a roll on over a rise, by tumpy I mean when you're getting composed to climb a big hill and beginning to get through the tumpy stuff before it or after it, I think of it as transitional, whilst getting your act together for different muscle use, techniques and pains ... as soon as it's levelling, then it's time to pull pace back up and get the dawg moving again ! Think we're mixing up functional / distance / comfortable rides with pacier runs a bit too much here. I believe that the purpose of the original thread was to cover powering the flats (?), I've popped in the other stuff so we can make the distinction that this isn't 'normal' riding, so as not to give newbies a bum steer. As we all know, those other gears come in handy quite often .
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